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Why Humans Are Selfish: What Science Actually Says

Katy & TheoEpisode 3 of Mind Games6 min

Mind GamesEpisode 36 min · Katy & Theo
0:00-5:47

In the app you can ask Katy about anything mid-episode, then it picks back up.

Are we wired for kindness or just confused? What economic games and evolution really show.

Transcript

Katy

Put four strangers in a room. Give each of them ten pounds. Anything they put in a shared pot gets multiplied and split between everyone.

Theo

So if we all put in everything, we all come out ahead.

Katy

Right. And if you put in nothing while everyone else gives, you do best of all. That's a public goods game, and it's been run thousands of times.

Theo

Let me guess, everyone's a saint for about two rounds.

Katy

Almost exactly. People start out generous, and cooperation collapses as the rounds go on. That collapse is the thing the whole debate about human selfishness hangs on.

Theo

Why? Doesn't collapsing just mean we're selfish and slow to realise it?

Katy

That's one reading. The other is that we really are kind, and we only stop when we feel exploited. Same data, two completely opposite stories about human nature.

Theo

Okay, so how do you tell them apart?

Katy

There's a trick. You let cooperation die, then you announce a surprise restart. Same people, same game, fresh set of rounds. What do you think happens?

Theo

Nothing? They've already learned the lesson.

Katy

Cooperation jumps back up. It's called the restart effect, and for years it was treated as proof that something warm and non-selfish is in there.

Theo

Huh. That is a bit odd.

Katy

So a team published in PNAS in twenty twenty-two tested it two ways. First, they made contributions invisible, so you couldn't influence anyone. The restart effect vanished.

Theo

Meaning people were only being generous to nudge others into being generous back.

Katy

Strategically, yes. Then the second test. They had people play with computer players, and told them they were computers.

Theo

And people still restarted? Against machines?

Katy

They did. They tracked the computers' cooperation up and down. Only about twenty-two percent of people played the rational thing and contributed zero every round.

Theo

So most people were being nice to a program. That's not altruism, that's just... not following the instructions.

Katy

The authors call it confusion. Their conclusion is that these games have often been measuring self-interested but confused behaviour, not some uniquely human generosity.

Theo

Honestly, that's the part I'd have got wrong. I'd have said the games prove we're kind deep down.

Katy

And yet, don't swing all the way the other way. A meta-study of ninety-six prisoner's dilemma studies, over three and a half thousand people, found cooperation rates averaging about thirty-five percent.

Theo

Thirty-five is a lot more than zero.

Katy

And it swings wildly, from four percent to eighty-four. What predicts it isn't how nice the people are. In one-shot games it's risk, meaning how much you lose if you cooperate and they don't.

Theo

So the same person is generous or stingy depending on what's at stake.

Katy

Change the structure, change the human. A huge meta-analysis across six decades, over two hundred thousand participants, found the two things that lift cooperation most are being able to punish or reward people, and being allowed to talk to each other.

Theo

Talking. Just talking.

Katy

Just talking.

Theo

But hang on. Does any of this survive outside a lab with money on a screen? People jump into rivers for strangers.

Katy

Which brings in the biology, and that's where the word altruism means something stricter. To a biologist, altruism is a behaviour that lowers your own fitness and raises someone else's.

Theo

Fitness being, what, number of descendants?

Katy

Roughly, yes. And that's a genuine puzzle, because cheats who take the benefit without paying the cost should wipe altruists out.

Theo

So why hasn't that happened?

Katy

Hamilton's rule. Altruism is favoured when r b minus c is greater than zero. R is how related you are, b is the benefit to them, c is the cost to you.

Theo

So helping your sister is partly helping copies of your own genes.

Katy

From the gene's point of view, the altruistic act is selfish. Which is why "selfish gene" never meant selfish people. The gene's accounting and your feelings are two different ledgers.

Theo

That distinction's been muddled my whole life.

Katy

Try one. You're in a one-shot game with a stranger, no names, no chance to talk, and if you cooperate and they don't, you lose a lot. Predict the cooperation rate.

Theo

High risk, no communication, no punishment... low. Near the bottom of that range. Ten, fifteen percent?

Katy

About right for that end. Add a chat window and the ability to punish defectors, and you climb towards the top of it. Same species, different room.

Theo

So the honest answer to "are humans selfish" is... it depends on the room.

Katy

Partly. The lab games look less altruistic than people claimed, once you strip out strategy and confusion. The biology explains real self-sacrifice through relatedness and cost. And the structure around you moves the number more than your character does.

Theo

I'm going to be insufferable next time someone says the selfish gene thing at dinner.

Katy

Just let them finish first.

Sources

Katy and Theo researched this episode from these sources.

  1. The restart effect in social dilemmas shows humans are self-interested not altruistic | PNAS
  2. Risk and Temptation: A Meta‐study on Prisoner's Dilemma Games
  3. Altruism: Current Biology
  4. Institutions and Cooperation: A Meta-Analysis of Structural Features in Social Dilemmas